Failed Constitution Amendment on Electing Ministers

[EUKBICR]

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Honorable Speaker,

A MOTION

To amend the Constitution of the Union
Introduced into the SENATE of the Union of Democratic States on the 7 of November, 2021, by SUPERSAURUS
As follows:
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WHEREAS Cabinet Ministers are currently appointed by the President, rather than being directly elected,
BELIEVING that it would be more democratic for Cabinet Ministers to be directly elected,
SEEKING to amend the Constitution so that Cabinet Ministers are directly elected, and
CONFIDENT that future legislation will be passed to fix any contradictions with past legislation outside of the constitution,
HEREBY AMENDS UL-004 as follows:

Section 1: Definitions and Short Title
1. This Act may be referenced as the "Constitutional Amendment on Electing Ministers of 2021"

Section 2: Provisions
1. Any mentions of "Cabinet Ministers" in Sections 10 and 11 of Article II of the Constitution shall be removed.
2. Section 5 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:
"5. A Cabinet of Ministers shall be elected during Minister Elections, which shall occur immediately after Presidential elections using a Multi-Seat Electoral System as per regional law (with the same amount of seats as vacant Cabinet positions).
a). The President shall hold the right to regulate the Cabinet as they see fit, but are expected to be cooperative with their Cabinet.
b). Ministries may be established by law or by the President. Ministries will not automatically cease to exist following vacancy in the office of the President.
c). In the event of a vacancy in the Cabinet, an emergency election for the vacant Cabinet position shall be held.
d). A Cabinet Minister currently serving may be recalled from office, through the same process as recalling a Senator.
e). In the event that no Candidates are willing to run for a Cabinet position after the Declarations period, the President may appoint a Cabinet, with a simple majority vote to confirm the Cabinet nominee(s) by the Senate."

 

[EUKBICR]

I invite @Apatosarurus to introduce the bill.

 

[Apatosarurus]

Basically this would mean that Cabinet Ministers, instead of being appointed & confirmed, are directly elected in elections which would happen immediately after Presidential elections. As someone suggested on Discord, if there are no Candidates willing to run for Cabinet the President can unilaterally appoint their own Cabinet subject to Senate confirmation. The idea is that if this passes, there would be another amendment to fix any contradiction with past legislations.

Some (of probably more) benefits:
1) More accountability to the public
2) Makes it harder for the President to make unilateral decisions (not saying this is a problem now, but in the current system it can become a problem)
3) More democratic
4) Creates another avenue for public participation in Government

 

[EUKBICR]

I open debate

 

[EUKBICR]

I am afraid that I cannot support a bill which in effect reduces the autonomy of the executive head of the UDS.

 

[Kron]

I'm tempted, ever so tempted, to vote for this when it comes to pass and have the electorate vote on it in a referendum, just to see how much it'd be supported.

However, before we get to that point, theres a few things about this proposal that must be cleared up and straightened out. For starters, I fail to see how we could have Ministries established in anything but legislation in this sort of system. A President can just abolish Ministers they personally or politically dislike, or create new Ministries to stack the Cabinet's balance in their favour, etc.

This'd also need to amend other parts of the constitution in order to work and be balanced. Why does this take power from the Senator to relieve Ministers of their positions, and hand it to the public, but not do the same to the President? At its essence this elevates individual Ministers' place in the Cabinet to that of equal to the President, at best the President is - to use a British term - 'first among equals' and, surely ought to be treated as such?

Additionally, this needs clarification: Do Minister elections for simply a position in the Cabinet or for specific Ministries? If it is the former, the President is functionally unable to sack an inactive Minister and relies on the lengthy process of a recall, and if it is the latter the President can - as I've said before - shuffle Ministers around by abolishing their position.

I'd prefer the terminology of 'by-election' for vacancies during the term as to better align with other language in the Constitution and the Elections Act.
We can not simply use the same terms for a Minister recall as the Senate as that would mean Ministers are unable to recalled until 10 days after a Senate election, not a Ministerial one.

 

[Glaciosia]

I personally stronglt believe this system is inappropriate for our regions size, structure and culture. Having seen (and occasionally participated in) term by term hunts for willing and qualified candidates for ministerial offices, I do not think there will be sufficient competition for office for this to serve as an efficient process for selecting the best people for the position. Furthermore , in my experience the ministers are the ones doing a significant majority of the work of running their ministry in all but a handful of cases. So rather than a leader , marshalling and directing their subordinates in a large bureaucracy , where it would be reasonable for them to be potentially selected for their leadership and policy ideas —a goal suited for popular elections— , they are first and foremost workers, who must be selected for by their skills and work ethic, a job best done through presidential appointment.

 

[Glaciosia]

I request that the speaker close debate

 

[EUKBICR]

I close debate.

 

[EUKBICR]

We now move to formal vote. Those in favour may say Aye, those against may say No.

 

[Glaciosia]

No

 

[Apatosarurus]

I move a motion to overrule the Speaker's decision to close debate

 

[EUKBICR]

Senators, a motion to overrule the Speaker’s decision to close debate has been moved. Since it refers to a decision taken before voting began, this motion takes precedence. Voting is on hold until the motion is either passed or rejected. Those in favour to overrule the speaker may say Aye, those against may say No.

 

[Apatosarurus]

Aye

 

[Kron]

Aye

 

[EUKBICR]

Aye.

 

[EUKBICR]

I think the Ayes have it, the Ayes have it. The motion is approved. The debate continues.

 

[Apatosarurus]

I propose this amendment to this proposal:

"WHEREAS Cabinet Ministers are currently appointed by the President, rather than being directly elected,
BELIEVING that it would be more democratic for Cabinet Ministers to be directly elected,
SEEKING to amend the Constitution so that Cabinet Ministers are directly elected, and
CONFIDENT that future legislation will be passed to fix any contradictions with past legislation outside of the constitution,
HEREBY AMENDS UL-004 as follows:
Section 1: Definitions and Short Title
1. This Act may be referenced as the "Constitutional Amendment on Electing Ministers of 2021"
Section 2: Provisions
1. Any mentions of "Cabinet Ministers" in Clauses 10 and 11 of Article II of the Constitution shall be removed.
2. Section 5 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:
"5. A Cabinet of Ministers shall be elected during Minister Elections, which shall occur immediately after Presidential elections using a Multi-Seat Electoral System as per regional law (with the same amount of seats as vacant Cabinet positions).
a). The President shall hold the right to regulate the Cabinet as they see fit, but are expected to be cooperative with their Cabinet.
b). Ministries may be established by law or by the President. Ministries will not automatically cease to exist following vacancy in the office of the President.
c). In the event of a vacancy in the Cabinet, an emergency election for the vacant Cabinet position shall be held.
d). A Cabinet Minister currently serving may be recalled from office, through the same process as recalling a Senator.
e). In the event that no Candidates are willing to run for a Cabinet position after the Declarations period, the President may appoint a Cabinet, with a simple majority vote to confirm the Cabinet nominee(s) by the Senate."
2. Clause 1 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:
"1. The job of the President is to act as a facilitator of the Cabinet, pass Executive Orders upon Cabinet consensus, pass Persona Non Grata declarations of non-citizens, and veto legislation deemed harmful to the Union.
3. Clause 5 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:
"5. A Cabinet of Ministers shall be elected during Minister Elections, which shall occur immediately after regular Presidential elections using a Single-Seat Electoral System as per regional law, to fill each cabinet position.
a). The President shall act as a facilitator and Leader of the Cabinet, and is expected to be cooperative with their Cabinet Ministers.
b). The following Ministries are defined in the Constitution, while further Ministries may be established by law:
i. The Ministry of Defense, in charge of leadership of the UDSAF,
ii. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in charge of maintaining and creating foreign relations,
iii. The Ministry of Culture, in charge of maintaining cultural activity
iv. The Ministry of Justice, in charge of interpreting and enforcing regional law, and
v. The Ministry of the Census, in charge of keeping official records of Union citizens and processing Citizenship applications.
c). In the event of a vacancy in the Cabinet, an emergency by-election for the vacant Cabinet position shall be held.
d). A Cabinet Minister currently serving may be recalled from office, if eight signatures of Union citizens are collected, which shall be verified by the Electoral Commission, following which a by-election will be held where the sitting Minister is automatically included on the ballot unless they express formal intent not to be. Ministers may only be recalled if at least 10 days have passed since the conclusion of the last Minister Election.
e). In the event that no Candidates are willing to run for a Cabinet position after the Declarations period, the President may appoint a Cabinet, with a simple majority vote to confirm the Cabinet nominee(s) by the Senate."
4. Clause 6 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:
"6. The President shall hold a variety of powers which may be delegated to their Cabinet Ministers or the Vice President. These powers include:
a). Passing Executive Orders, directions for the implementation of laws and regulations for the business of executive governance, upon Cabinet consensus.
b). Persona Non Grata Declarations, which shall censure non-citizens and prohibit their entry into the region.
c). Vetoing legislation within the Senate that deemed harmful to the Union.
c). These powers may be expanded upon via law.
d). These powers may be further delegated by Cabinet Ministers to their subordinates; delegated powers are inferior to their source.""

 

[Glaciosia]

1. Any mentions of "Cabinet Ministers" in Sections 10 and 11 of Article II of the Constitution shall be removed.

This feels somewhat sloppy to me? But I imagine it would mostly work out with the authority given to the archivist.

2. Section 1 of Article III of the Constitution shall read as follows:

I was under the understanding that the proper terminology in this circumstance would be "clause" but i may be mistaken.

"1. The job of the President is to act as a facilitator of the Cabinet, pass Executive Orders, nominate Senators and veto legislation deemed harmful to the Union.

This is generally written much worse than the clause it replaces, and leaves several questions open including: what does "nominate senators" and what is the scope and power of Executive Orders (i will get back to this point later)

"5. A Cabinet of Ministers shall be elected during Minister Elections, which shall occur immediately after Presidential elections using a Single-Seat Electoral System as per regional law, to fill each cabinet position.

Why are Minister Elections separate from Presidential elections? Additionally, it would be better to mirror more closely the language used in clause 2 of this article. This also leaves open a scenario in which a by-election occurs because the president resigns or is removed etc would trigger a ministerial election, even though that doesn't seem to be the intent of this section.

a). The President shall act as a facilitator and Leader of the Cabinet, and is expected to be cooperative with their Cabinet Ministers.

What does this mean? how will this be enforced? How does this interact with 1. (above)

b). Ministries defined in the Constitution are the Ministry of Defense, in charge of leadership of the UDSAF, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in charge of maintaining foreign relations, the Ministry of Culture, in charge of maintaining cultural activity and the Ministry of Census. Further Ministries may be established by law.

This is sloppily and confusingly written "ministries defined in the constitution are"? why not define them instead of this weird pseudo-tautology. This also raises some significant questions about the division of executive power, "Ministry of Census" should be "Ministry of the Census". The constitution already establishes a cabinet minister post of the Attorney General/Minister of Justice, and yet this section leaves it out, but doesn't remove the section which establishes it later in the constitution.

Election Commission

*Electoral Commission

I also think you still need to amend several other sections of the constitution for this section to work, including most of the ones that regard the distribution of executive power. Our current system is one which grants power to the president, who then delegates this to others. As such clause 6 would also need to be rewritten:

6. The President shall hold a variety of powers which may be delegated to their Cabinet Ministers or the Vice President. These powers include:

a). Executive Orders, directions for the implementation of laws and regulations for the business of executive governance.
b). Persona Non Grata Declarations, which shall censure non-citizens and prohibit their entry into the region.
c). Accepting, denying and processing citizenship applications.
d). These powers may be expanded upon via law.
e). These powers may be further delegated by Cabinet Ministers to their subordinates; delegated powers are inferior to their source.

As I mentioned, how would executive orders work in a system where the President has very little actual authority? Could they not issue an executive order instructing their cabinet members to do (x action) against their will? If not what do executive orders actually do in this scenario. Also, subclause c here would presumably not be given to the President and instead to the Minister of the Census.

This proposed amendment constitutes a fundamental reconstruction of the structure of the government, and thus requires thoughtful consideration and a very thorough approach to amending every part of the constitution which these changes touch (basically all of them) which this bill and your proposed revision of it both lack.

 

[Apatosarurus]

This feels somewhat sloppy to me? But I imagine it would mostly work out with the authority given to the archivist.

I was under the understanding that the proper terminology in this circumstance would be "clause" but i may be mistaken.

Changed to clause ig

This is generally written much worse than the clause it replaces, and leaves several questions open including: what does "nominate senators" and what is the scope and power of Executive Orders (i will get back to this point later)

Fixed.

Why are Minister Elections separate from Presidential elections? Additionally, it would be better to mirror more closely the language used in clause 2 of this article. This also leaves open a scenario in which a by-election occurs because the president resigns or is removed etc would trigger a ministerial election, even though that doesn't seem to be the intent of this section.

I added "regular" in front of "Presidential elections" if that helps.

What does this mean? how will this be enforced? How does this interact with 1. (above)

It is meant to be a job description more than something to be enforced, to be honest.

This is sloppily and confusingly written "ministries defined in the constitution are"? why not define them instead of this weird pseudo-tautology. This also raises some significant questions about the division of executive power, "Ministry of Census" should be "Ministry of the Census". The constitution already establishes a cabinet minister post of the Attorney General/Minister of Justice, and yet this section leaves it out, but doesn't remove the section which establishes it later in the constitution.

Done, I think.

*Electoral Commission

Fixed.

I also think you still need to amend several other sections of the constitution for this section to work, including most of the ones that regard the distribution of executive power. Our current system is one which grants power to the president, who then delegates this to others. As such clause 6 would also need to be rewritten:

Fixed Clause 6.

As I mentioned, how would executive orders work in a system where the President has very little actual authority? Could they not issue an executive order instructing their cabinet members to do (x action) against their will? If not what do executive orders actually do in this scenario. Also, subclause c here would presumably not be given to the President and instead to the Minister of the Census.

Does "upon Cabinet consensus" as a requirement for Executive Orders help? Sub-clause C is axed.